Like others said, I'd try first an MScaler with DAVE. Thanks for the interesting reply, cmarin. the North American distributors for Rockna so I thought I would jump in on this You are using an out of date browser. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. Its headphone amplifier is good but no match for higher powered units. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. The Premier is a super-high-resolution, completely silent, utterly dynamic component that lets music flow through it less hindered than through anything else I've heard. If so I'd recommend the Aqua Formula xHD and the TotalDAC d1-Seven. I could easily live with any of these. Whatever, the Discrete is a superb bit of kit that Id really love to take up residence in the system on a permanent basis, but thats not going to happen. The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. I wired it all up and the unit lit up but I could get no sound out of it whatsoever. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. This is because one PSU is supplying juice to modules including the screen and USB input etc but not to the output module. But in the specific case of the BADA and PM2, if you wish for me to be more precise, then taking into account that I only had the BADA ref for a very short time, the bottom line was that I didn't feel at the time that the difference between the PM2 in my system was significant enough to make it worth the energy to change components or the potential financial loss involved in a trade. However, there is nothing wrong with "taking" recommendations, which help me build a list that I can use to research then find a way to audition my shortlist. Playing Gil Scott-Heron and Brian Jacksons Your Daddy Loves You from the Winter in America album gave me the same impression of a reach-out-and-touch soundscape with incredibly well-defined positions in the mix and a whole load of detail the over-driven sound of the electric piano at around a minute forty really stood out as being faithful to the recording; a case of high-fidelity highlighting a low-fidelity artefact? Supported Formats (Depending on Input) 44.1 kHz to 3.072kHz PCM up to 32 bits 1xDSD, 2xDSD, 4xDSD, 8xDSD Accepts DSD via DoP on all inputs, Digital Inputs 1x RCA Coaxial 1x XLR 1x Word-Sync Out 2x Toslink 2x Isolated slots for optional modules, XLR Outputs Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance 300 High Gain setting Impedance 150 Low Gain setting. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Can I ask how you procured all those DACs? Over the air updates will ensure that your renderer always has the latest capabilities and ultimate convenience. The Discrete DAC, the successor and highly improved replacement to the now-famous Analog DAC is the MSB DAC that everyone has been waiting for. One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. Did you audition all of them in the same place with the same system? Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. The dCS Bartok was also interesting but, based on my research, I kept coming back to Bricasti. There are so. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. If you have a turntable, for instance, the Discrete will have to act as a standalone DAC and go into a preamplifier/integrated amplifier which will then add its own flavour to the mix. No matter what ice cream you prefer, I prefer something else. You must log in or register to reply here. You'd expect Audiosanctuary to understand what a gutless amp sounds like, and at least put a headphone amp in front of that DAVE, if they wanted to sell people either the DAVE or the headphones. And thinking more about it, the differences at the time could have been small because the noise level in my system at the time of the comparison were relatively higher than they are now. JavaScript is disabled. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. Sounds shrill on my workstation and work laptop. The other stand out dacs that we like are the The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. Im outputting directly to the LAB12 (and later a Krell KST100) power amp and so a digital volume algorithm is used where the digital volume control is left at a relatively high output so as not to encounter loss at lower volume levels. Actual auditioning of the unit prior to purchase is paramount. And this is what separates the very good from the excellent piece of audio equipment. You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. I havent heard the Rockna. Theyre not limited by audio formats, sample rates, or even speed. The only thing that I'd really like to see added here is an Aries Cerat. Great Dac but for me a NOS DAC (Metrum Adagio) won the contest over all the others Dacs I have tried so far. Is it better than the Chord DAVE that I raved about a few years ago? I've had some excellent preamps in my system (Dartzeel, Absolare, Robert Koda, Kondo). heard, I could easily live with the Aeris, Dave, or Wavedream. "To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned I have personally not observed this - with either the DAVE or my Mojo. @ricred1, I would like to suggest you take a look at the Mola Mola Tambaqui when it arrives later this month I understand. Others might disagree but these are my findings. The good DS (delta sigma) dacs that aren't hard or harsh, are a bit of a yawn, and lack bringing out the life (boogie factor) of the music, but in a . There are a lot of people that absolutely love the M-scaler. The Chord DAVE was also on my list, but I decided to pass (my Chord retailer was very 'pushy' and not helpful). Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. 2. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Only hifi shops and shows hear and there. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. This unit came with two power supplies and Ill be playing with the DAC with one and with two to compare and contrast. The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. This ranking is just my subjective thinking. The Discrete is a genuine high fidelity DAC and a fabulously built one to boot, add in the modular input flexibility and you have a pretty stunning product with excellent future proofing. Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites, Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. Thanks for the suggestion ecwl. Sonically, it is akin to the old straight wire with gain only in the digital realm. California crafted in-house from an aluminum billet, the enclosure feels solid yet refined. subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with There's 340 pages packed with HiFi Reviews, Industry Interviews and much more. When connecting to the MScaler, Dual-BNC was used on the chord dacs with shawline digital BNC cables. The Discrete DAC Features - MSB Technology The Discrete DAC Refined sound. as far as direct comparison with other dacs the closest Ive done is listening to the Select II at shows and then listening to other top dacs in other systems at shows. There ain't no Coupe deVille hiding at the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box. MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option] Chord [Dave] Myek [Manhattan II] I had A-B test about 2 months. The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. which make some people prefer this one to MSB Select II Point 85 Chord Dave and Mscaler (or Blue II transport) This one give transparent and 3D soundstage with excellent details. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. You must log in or register to reply here. That's the negative to going my route I guess. Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers, A healthy approach to understanding measurements, After being asked for the 308th time, Merv lists top 5 headphones, $1000 to the first to design a headamp using discrete components with better measurements than Magni 3+, http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/chord-dave-29757/#post579518, (You must log in or sign up to reply here.). Will do. Each clock is made up of two independent clocks but only one is used at any given time so as not to add unwanted noise to the circuit. will every hear. Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. I havent heard the Rockna. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. home system and listening for that end result. connection to the dac chip. The DACs are individually shielded and thermally-bonded and multiple units are used per channel, which MSB tells us increases performance and lowers output impedance. And if I had to guess (given I haven't heard both), I'd guess it outperforms the Tambaqui. CH Precision C1 DAC. Hifi Pig is part of the Big Pig Media LLP group of companies. Concluding that there is some kind of problem with using an FPGA vs. what MSB does is not technically supportable. It would be absolute suicide for an audio distributor to You could spend less and get close to the sound of this DAC, for sure. The Prime DAC Module. But DAVE also seems to me to highlight the original recording so if the recording is flat, the playback sounds flat (still with great accurate timbre) but if the recording really showcase the soundstage and the 3-dimensionality of the instruments and vocals, DAVE really portrays that well. I agree price is necessarily indicative of quality or performance. Like x 5 List As you mentioned imaging better, incredible PRaT with MSB. Btw, my MSB friend and I used the internal analog preamp for MSB and built-in digital preamp for DAVE. Once complete there are measurements and functional tests before the final products are inspected, cleaned, and packed up ready to be shipped, but not before a white glove inspection by either Jonathan or Daniel. It seems to take in zeros and ones and then somehow make sense of these and just convert them into faithful reproductions of the recording though me not being at the recording of any of the records I listened to, thats my assumption coming into play. Complete electrical isolation I've yet to see a system with direct connections eliminating the preamp which wasn't improved by a adding a good preamp back into the mix! Thats not allthe CNC unibody aluminum chassis provides the discrete power supply with optimal thermal performance and an elegant design aesthetic. Its weighty, it feels perfect, its not overly ostentatious and its perfect! So thats it and I think the only thing I think Ive left out of the build part of this DAC is the 3 buttons and the knob on the front panel which are used for manually changing the volume and menu diving, though all this can be done from the remote. Just go for an internal Asus card to fit in a PCI slot you should be able to get bit perfect optical output thanks for confirming suitability of current setup. One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. We await Phase 2 where all DACs are assessed using upsampled data via your Lumin U1 to establish ranking and the preferred format through each. Our products include our in-house designed viton feet, but any audiophile M6X1 foot can be installed to personalize your system. You are using an out of date browser. The reasoning behind the two clocks dealing with different frequency families is that music is mostly recorded within multiples of the 44.1kHz family or the 48kHz family and having a clock dealing with each family minimises loss. The PSUs are available to match. The PM2 is very special. Cs | Critical Mass CS2s -> components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. If you take a look at their website you will see that the machining shop is a fully equipped facility designed to meet the needs of a company producing high-quality cases in which the electronics will be fitted no off the shelf or cheap bent metal cases here! I don't think any of us have heard the Dave, and we don't have any interest. Thanks. 2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. personal preference. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Putting price aside, what are your thoughts about the Hugo TT as an integrated DAC+amp? Yes, definitely, as it is those extra tiny little bits of detail that adds the cherry on top of an already rather splendid slice of musical cake brought out on tracks like the audio show mainstay Keith Dont Go from Acoustic Live by Nils Lofgren. I've owned a PS Audio 2. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. For some folk, a highly resolving and accurate system may well be described as being over-analytical, and on the other side of the audio fence, some will suggest that some systems sound nice but flawed. And now that my system is much more resolving, it's possible that the differences could be larger and my preferences could change. Many competing DACs will have a more comprehensive display at this price and, more commonly still, an app designed for intuitive access via smartphone and/or tablets. list the Rockna Wavedream Edition sounds this good, how good does their Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by mtoc, Jun 9, 2016. Fair enough if you know some of the posters here and their listening preferences. The next module is the display which is a cool and easy-to-read LED that is slaved to the audio clock. Others might disagree but these are my findings. If I had been responsible for coding that display I would never tell anyone. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. I like all this attention to detail and the MSB website suggests a company that is massively proud of its American heritage and of the products they make. The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. It has the option for two PSUs and once you hear with both it becomes a necessity to have both. Auction bid 7 150 25 . I would say go for one of the other MSB ModelsThe Reference is half of the Select dac and the premier and discrete dacs are stunning performers for their price level Just in case it's not obvious, toetapaudio is a Mola Mola Dealer. Aurender W20-> Lampizator Pacific SE -> Ayon Crossfire III or Circle Labs A100 -> Avantgarde Acoustic Trio LE 26 with 4x REL Carbon Special ,SACD Player: Audio Aero La Fontaine. They're very back ordered and are a pro unit with balanced only outputs and no remote but oh my do they sound spectacular. UPnP Protocol MQA decoding The DAVE DAC does not perform anywhere near where it should. As the topic suggests, looking for comparisons on the above Dacs from people who have atleast heard and compared 2 of these dacs. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. Check out the awards + accolades. That statement makes sense in an analog paradigm. We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. http://www.computeraudiophile.com/members/mikejazz/, funded this campain: http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. MSB Technology Discrete Modular DAC Page 2. Unless they have the exact same components as the end user, it's impossible to tell that customer how component X will sound in their system. This would help to take your digital playback upa few levels. So take it for what it is. To my ears it makes music sound unnatural. So I personally prefer to listen to different DACs just like I prefer to listen to analog as well as digital. And I make Best DAC Quality Ranking list. You must log in or register to reply here. Analogue Volume Control 1dB from 0 to 106 Deactivable by menu, Dimensions ChassisWidth : 432 mmDepth: 305 mmHeight without feet: 51 mm. Perhaps you should consider the Accuphase DC-37 currently for sale in the classifieds? a year ago I got the new Renderer V2 which was a step up over USB. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. I'd also look at the Mola-Mola Tambaqui and the new dCS Bartok. When we set out to make the MSB remote, the design was built from the ground up. $16K Signature DAC sound? 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. I like Aqua Formula xHD and Totaldac Six. It will kick your ass. I submit dealers use the statement "component X competes against much more expensive components" far too often. It is bested easily by DACs at $150. The Discrete DAC, The Premier DAC, The Reference DAC, The Select DAC II, Theater Master. So yes it's a question of being polite, but it's also about acknowledging the limitations inherent in making absolute pronouncements about differences between high performing components. The Chord Qutest DAC has the same DAC architecture and filters as the Chord Hugo 2. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The output modules are where the converted digital signals are output to analogue signals that our amplifiers can make use of and MSB make two flavours of the output module. But dont take our word for it. And what streamer are you using to feed the DAC? The end result is a digital experience defying expectations. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. I had the DAVE for 3years, it is an amazing DAC. He liked the Mola Mola Tambaqui over these others listed below. Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. It is an unassuming but very nicely put together component that has had a great deal of thought put into the architecture of the parts that make it up. Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it The evolution of the original irreverent and irrelevant and non-authoritative site for headphone measurements, i.e. After a year of listening to various components I'm content. @ricred1, youre right to point that out. retail client forgets that most audio stores and audio distribution companies I agree with what you are saying but "far too often" the Sit back and be immersed. Theres just a sense that with the MSB in the line that everything is timed correctly and rock solid. Stainless steel buttons arrayed around an elegant volume wheel to optimize performance and response. Of course your opinion on sound quality is your own, and valid, but to suggest that the reason for the difference is because the Chord is an "FPGA DAC" is technically incorrect. JavaScript is disabled. If you go reference you will never look back. More sharing . The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs. and our ears are completely different. But digital, potentially, can change things. Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile. Rori The MSB DAC comes with one external PSU as standard. When you get the chance to hear Chord DAVE, try playing files bit perfect instead of upsampling them to DSD256 with HQPlayer. I did have the BADA Ref in my system for a short audition, and the Trinity And CH Precision C1 for a longer stay during a previous iteration of my system. Mola Mola dac and the Total dac. 5 other people who only have 2 things in common with our system. Gbel High End [Divin Noblesse], [Divin Marquis], ([Epoque Aeon Fine]). Elevator Pitch Review: Built in America, the MSB Discrete is a modular DAC that also acts as a preamplfier, though, as supplied, it has no analogue inputs. frequency response graphs, CSD waterfall plots, subjective gear reviews. I've had many world class DACS in my studio over the years and the Crane Song is as good as any no matter the cost. Both DACs connected directly to power amp using each DACs volume controle. JavaScript is disabled. At MSB, we believe excellence is a promise worth keeping. The main reason we took on Rockna was because their Some very good advice here. - Roon Endpoint. Would I pay extra for the second supply? This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. MSB Discrete Dac with one additional basic power supply. Thank you for posting! Very resolving, tone is on the cold side of neutral but otherwise pretty free of digital nasties compared to the cheaper Chords, and the stage is flatter than Keira Knightley. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends.. It's too damn expensive, full stop. Were honored to be recognized by the industry for bringing you the most lifelike sound we can. sounds like a more transparent Chord Dave to my ears. There is a real sense of spectacle and scale when the MSB is in the system. It would have been a different outcome though with the Cyrus pre-amp I previously owned, which cast a veil over everything. For example, the chassis for the products are made from North American-sourced metals, and then that is machined using Haas CNC machines that are built in California. Thank you, Mike. I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). Nothing was amiss. Out of all of the DACs I've However, the extra PSU does add to the cost considerably! It could sound analytical or hot coupled with bright combination of speaker and amplifier. Your web browser does not support iFrames. Thats why were thrilled to offer up to 100% trade-in value for existing MSB products when upgrading to a higher performing series. You could try some of the newer dacs that has gotten good reviews. With the MSB there has been a great deal of attention paid to ensuring the signal stays as pure as possible and is not affected by other parts of the DAC or outside sources; modular construction, dual power supplies, isolation of USB etc. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. I listen mostly to classical music, particularly with symphonic work, I prefer DAVE to MSB. Guess what I am trying to say is: preamps are important. My wife said it as my Select II sits it would list for $116,450. Couldn't agree more. But MSB Select 2 is regarded by many as the best thats why for something 1/10 of the price to compete in anyones eyes is quite an accomplishment. The Pro USB was developed to offer a multi part USB solution that features complete electrical isolation and all the performance of MSBs proprietary Pro ISL input. The end users ears are the only ears that count. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. Lots of time it Not sure why you would spend so much on a DAC when the Crane Song Solaris is available at $1,949. Too many DACs> Too many amps> Too many headphones. The demo model came in brushed aluminium but you can also get black. The DAC has two modes; multi-bit PCM and single-bit discrete DSD mode. If you currently have an MSB DAC or amplifier that you lovebut are looking to experience more from your systemplease reach out to your local dealer. MSB are an American brand headed up by the brothers Jonathan and Daniel Gullman and located in Silicon Valley, California where they design and build a range of amplifiers, transports, and DACs. You are using an out of date browser. that it is difficult to say you have the best in regard to dacs but Rockna is Like the Lab12. sounds just like the Dave. I dont know as that was years ago and I dont have one here to test against. Any owners around here? The Hugo TT2 is intended to bridge the gap between the range topping DAVE and budget Qutest rack mounted offerings. You already have a very top tier DAC. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. What I do know is that the MSB brings an excellent level of performance by way of neutrality to a system that allows other parts of the system to do their thing its sort of the digital equivalent of a very (very) good cartridge. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. Looks like your budget goes up to ~$20k? I don't want to waste hifi shops time too much knowing I'll be going second hand either. Needless to say given everything talked about so far, the Prime DAC modules are made in-house and they have been making and designing discrete ladder DACs since 1999. - MQA decoding. I do however like the i2S connection better than any other So true jr, the discrete R2R Multibit dacs like the Terminator the Holo, MSB, Total ect ect have a life and a boogie factor to the music that DS dacs lack, and yes they do show up bad recordings. First I want to say that I fully agree that the hobby is It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) But if you don't, what is your reference point? @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? Conversely, you could spend a lot more and not gain a great deal in real terms. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet >Antipodes K30> Shunyata Omega USB> Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120, Amp& Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 >Aerial 10T, Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra,ShunyataDenali v1 andTyphon power conditioners,Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma power cords, QSA Lanedri GammaRevelationinterconnect,Shunyata SigmaEthernet,MIT Matrix HD60speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels. and the MSB Select II has a huge advantage over other dacs with its modularity and in-house development which promotes, in a very timely way, keeping the product at the very tip top cutting edge of digital interface developments. The formats that is used in comparison test is all 16bit / 44.1KHz, not DSD The Result : 1st : Select DAC II Full Option - 100% 2nd : Trinity DAC - 90%
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